b,anna, caitilin, jeff. jack has refered so many times to his grandkids i posted these pictures. the picture of my husband jack is the older person in 1958. of course these our boring, but he wants you to see his 'life'.
anna, tomorrow i'm going to contact two priest. i think what is hurting jack is he is being too nice. he won't be rude[he never is]but i don't want him to be groeveling. i hope, i think, it will work. your last post tiped the scales along with the patience of b, jeff, etc. we really don't have much time. alice
I will pray that contacting the priests tomorrow will go well for both you and Jack. Tell Jack he doesn't need to grovel. He's a beloved child of the Most High - he needs fear no one's disapproval.
It sounds like he is getting worse physically? I'm praying that he may be healed, too.
You have a beautiful family, and a lot to be proud of. God Bless 'em all. I noticed '1959' in the photo, which happens to be the year I was born, so I couldn't quite help but getting a chuckle out of that. :-D
jeff, that was jack at 25. brains fine, looks good. i was lucky to get him!!
anna, we are having an addition built on our daughter and son-in-law house. not because we're feeble but just to be close the family.jack is in some kind of digging machine.
the son in law is one of jack's converts in the sense he never said negative thing about RC's and urged him to join my daughter's church.
got to put on picture of myself, our son John and Meg. You honor me by looking. Maybe you know jack and me a little better. alice
Anna, Jeff, b others. Lightening just blew away my text. so here we go again. I have some good news and a tough question.
I had cancer of the protate which had spread to the bladder, and the doctors were pretty sure it had spread to a kidney. After 65 days of treatment they hoped cancer of prostae and bladder might be in remission. Will know in 2 or 3 months. Good news. A cat scan makes them think know the kidney is NOT cancerous.Take it as you will, I think all of you for your support!!!
I became so weak recently I could barely walk. But you know me, did not tell doctor. When he found out he gave me medicine so here I am.
Now tough question. I have spent last two days studying RCIA.{Had to skip visit with priest today for doctor}. It seem overwhelmingly clear that RCIA is two different processes. One for cathechuman and one for candidate. I think the evidence is beyond dispute.
Some cathechumen like full process and ritual. Others find it demeaning. I am with the latter, as you would suspect.NO place in the candidate instructions is dismissal required for candidate; nor are the scrutinies, nor are signing the book, nor is reception at easter Vigil called for. Indeed the opposite!! Instruction should be tailored to individual as much as possible, and should be without burden as far as possible. Nor are candidates to be refered to as converts. Nor are they expected to repudiate their previous christian experience as combining both clearly implies.
From my reading candidates should be recognized as 'christians' but not in union with Rome. To me it seems clearly an insult to place all in one pot, because it clearly implies other christians are as 'unchurched' as those with no christian background.. You are beinng ask to repudiate your parents and the years of your christian activity as a sham..
These are serious matters to me and I cannot brush them aside with "okay what's a little demeaning, placed beside the fires of hell"{A bit overstated I agree.}
I can compromise. If a candidate wants to go the whole way--fine. But being supported by the bishops and what I have said above, why cannot I choose the bishops' way--- it's not mine. It is interesting to note to most catholics I and Alice know, this difference is not known.{A little paranoid} But I think there is a reason. Easier and less complicated.
An illustration I read on internet. If you were in the 12th grade in a school, and transfered out of town would you expect to be put in 8th grade? Isn't this RCIA?
The church wants me to be flexible when they show none UNDER THEIR OWN SUGGESTIONS.
Okay, I've drop the probation, even the experts can't explain the details.
You were at Georgetown. You know a thing or two about theology, catholic and otherwise. You certainly know your Newman...
You're no spring chicken. :-)
You have had a serious, life-threatening illness, and you may not be out of the woods yet.
You are still suffering seriously from the after-affects of that illness.
As you, say, the bishops are inclined to see things for candidates much the same as you do.
In conclusion:
Can't you get fast-tracked for your full acceptance into the Church? Is there a priest out there that might recognize the imperative, under the circumstances described above?
I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to be thrown in with the full catechumenate program. And I agree with the bishops that you shouldn't have to be. What I don't understand is why you are so sure that you will be. Have you asked them? Have they told you that you specifically have to go through a year-plus long program in order to become Catholic, that you will have to go through dismissal, scrutinies, etc?
If someone has ever said or implied that you would, I would recommend first asking the RCIA nun if that is really how she would expect it to happen, making it clear to her that you have already been validly baptized and living the Christian life and therefore are in the candidate category and not a catechumen. Confirm what would really happen before doing something about it.
If she says "yes, you have to go through the whole thing, Jack," then you should sit down with her and/or the priest and lay out all the things that Jeff mentioned: you're catechized better than many cradle Catholics, you're no spring chicken, you've been fighting cancer, and the bishops have said you shouldn't have to go through the full catechumenate.
It's great to hear you are feeling better, by the way, and that your kidney looks well. I'm still praying for you, for your health and for Christ's peace in your heart.
Jeff, see comment on b's reformed catholic, "spelling". Please keep to yourself. No one, not even those closest must see this. Can you 'read question and answer on b's. I think he will grant us this courtesy. I hope.
Anna, thanks again. I'm getting up my courage, which I wouldn't have without you and Jeff. I've spoken publicly so many times, what scares me about this?Don't know, but it does. Jack
I've been avoiding looking at your comment at B's because I think it was intended for only Jeff. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant, so if you do want me to read it, let me know.
It's ok to be scared. I don't know why you're scared, either, except maybe because you've had such bad experiences in the past. I offer Philippians 1:18-20 for your encouragement (hopefully):
But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
Anna, you may look at anything, but some was 'man' talk and did not want to offend you. Feel free to look. tomorrow I get e-mail from 'brand new' {2 weeks }priest. Maybe he will listen and not be bored. I will be most kind. From e-mail we'll set up meeting.Why don't I just walk in? They all know me and Alice volunteers Monday> Your encouragement is most welcome and needed!!! Jack
i'm going to try another picture. alice
ReplyDeleteb,anna, caitilin, jeff. jack has refered so many times to his grandkids i posted these pictures. the picture of my husband jack is the older person in 1958. of course these our boring, but he wants you to see his 'life'.
ReplyDeleteanna, tomorrow i'm going to contact two priest. i think what is hurting jack is he is being too nice. he won't be rude[he never is]but i don't want him to be groeveling. i hope, i think, it will work. your last post tiped the scales along with the patience of b, jeff, etc. we really don't have much time. alice
Great pictures. What is grandson Jack driving?
ReplyDeleteI will pray that contacting the priests tomorrow will go well for both you and Jack. Tell Jack he doesn't need to grovel. He's a beloved child of the Most High - he needs fear no one's disapproval.
It sounds like he is getting worse physically? I'm praying that he may be healed, too.
Jack and Alice,
ReplyDeleteYou have a beautiful family, and a lot to be proud of. God Bless 'em all. I noticed '1959' in the photo, which happens to be the year I was born, so I couldn't quite help but getting a chuckle out of that. :-D
jeff, that was jack at 25. brains fine, looks good. i was lucky to get him!!
ReplyDeleteanna, we are having an addition built on our daughter and son-in-law house. not because we're feeble but just to be close the family.jack is in some kind of digging machine.
the son in law is one of jack's converts in the sense he never said negative thing about RC's and urged him to join my daughter's church.
got to put on picture of myself, our son John and Meg. You honor me by looking. Maybe you know jack and me a little better. alice
Anna, Jeff, b others. Lightening just blew away my text. so here we go again. I have some good news and a tough question.
ReplyDeleteI had cancer of the protate which had spread to the bladder, and the doctors were pretty sure it had spread to a kidney. After 65 days of treatment they hoped cancer of prostae and bladder might be in remission. Will know in 2 or 3 months. Good news. A cat scan makes them think know the kidney is NOT cancerous.Take it as you will, I think all of you for your support!!!
I became so weak recently I could barely walk. But you know me, did not tell doctor. When he found out he gave me medicine so here I am.
Now tough question. I have spent last two days studying RCIA.{Had to skip visit with priest today for doctor}. It seem overwhelmingly clear that RCIA is two different processes. One for cathechuman and one for candidate. I think the evidence is beyond dispute.
Some cathechumen like full process and ritual. Others find it demeaning. I am with the latter, as you would suspect.NO place in the candidate instructions is dismissal required for candidate; nor are the scrutinies, nor are signing the book, nor is reception at easter Vigil called for. Indeed the opposite!! Instruction should be tailored to individual as much as possible, and should be without burden as far as possible. Nor are candidates to be refered to as converts. Nor are they expected to repudiate their previous christian experience as combining both clearly implies.
From my reading candidates should be recognized as 'christians' but not in union with Rome. To me it seems clearly an insult to place all in one pot, because it clearly implies other christians are as 'unchurched' as those with no christian background.. You are beinng ask to repudiate your parents and the years of your christian activity as a sham..
These are serious matters to me and I cannot brush them aside with "okay what's a little demeaning, placed beside the fires of hell"{A bit overstated I agree.}
I can compromise. If a candidate wants to go the whole way--fine. But being supported by the bishops and what I have said above, why cannot I choose the bishops' way--- it's not mine. It is interesting to note to most catholics I and Alice know, this difference is not known.{A little paranoid} But I think there is a reason. Easier and less complicated.
An illustration I read on internet. If you were in the 12th grade in a school, and transfered out of town would you expect to be put in 8th grade? Isn't this RCIA?
The church wants me to be flexible when they show none UNDER THEIR OWN SUGGESTIONS.
Okay, I've drop the probation, even the experts can't explain the details.
Gads, still your grateful friend. Jack
Jack,
ReplyDeleteMind if I cut to the chase here?
We know that:
You were at Georgetown. You know a thing or two about theology, catholic and otherwise. You certainly know your Newman...
You're no spring chicken. :-)
You have had a serious, life-threatening illness, and you may not be out of the woods yet.
You are still suffering seriously from the after-affects of that illness.
As you, say, the bishops are inclined to see things for candidates much the same as you do.
In conclusion:
Can't you get fast-tracked for your full acceptance into the Church? Is there a priest out there that might recognize the imperative, under the circumstances described above?
Jeff, I'll do what you say. I'm getting paid back for months of optimism; but that's fair.
ReplyDeletePlease if you can 'sepersize' picture of me holding child. Will that be a problem? I believe you can 'read' my question. Jack
Jack,
ReplyDeleteI can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to be thrown in with the full catechumenate program. And I agree with the bishops that you shouldn't have to be. What I don't understand is why you are so sure that you will be. Have you asked them? Have they told you that you specifically have to go through a year-plus long program in order to become Catholic, that you will have to go through dismissal, scrutinies, etc?
If someone has ever said or implied that you would, I would recommend first asking the RCIA nun if that is really how she would expect it to happen, making it clear to her that you have already been validly baptized and living the Christian life and therefore are in the candidate category and not a catechumen. Confirm what would really happen before doing something about it.
If she says "yes, you have to go through the whole thing, Jack," then you should sit down with her and/or the priest and lay out all the things that Jeff mentioned: you're catechized better than many cradle Catholics, you're no spring chicken, you've been fighting cancer, and the bishops have said you shouldn't have to go through the full catechumenate.
It's great to hear you are feeling better, by the way, and that your kidney looks well. I'm still praying for you, for your health and for Christ's peace in your heart.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJeff, see comment on b's reformed catholic, "spelling". Please keep to yourself. No one, not even those closest must see this. Can you 'read question and answer on b's. I think he will grant us this courtesy. I hope.
ReplyDeleteAnna, thanks again. I'm getting up my courage, which I wouldn't have without you and Jeff. I've spoken publicly so many times, what scares me about this?Don't know, but it does. Jack
ReplyDeleteJack,
ReplyDeleteI've been avoiding looking at your comment at B's because I think it was intended for only Jeff. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant, so if you do want me to read it, let me know.
It's ok to be scared. I don't know why you're scared, either, except maybe because you've had such bad experiences in the past. I offer Philippians 1:18-20 for your encouragement (hopefully):
But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
Anna, you may look at anything, but some was 'man' talk and did not want to offend you. Feel free to look.
ReplyDeletetomorrow I get e-mail from 'brand new' {2 weeks }priest. Maybe he will listen and not be bored. I will be most kind. From e-mail we'll set up meeting.Why don't I just walk in? They all know me and Alice volunteers Monday> Your encouragement is most welcome and needed!!! Jack
trying to get picture
ReplyDelete