Sunday, September 2, 2007

Maybe will meet again

I said a few weeks ago that I would no longer post. I have posted a couple of times since then. However this will be my last and the blog will be eliminated.

I believe I have conducted myself in a gentlemanly manner. Today, however, I was subjected to the most scurilous attack I have experience in47 years of debate both verbal and written. It was on a blog I had conficence in to the extent that I had revealed some of the most intimate details of my life. The blog "owner'" said the insulting comments were not intended for me. Should I suppose they were directed to Harry Truman.

Most of you have been most courteous, but alas, if the subject of abortion is even mentioned I must say a catholic looses all reason, respect, and any desire to engage coherently. I'm sorry, but am not willing to let my wife and daughter die{as in both cases could have happened} to saisfy the twisted logic of a church, twisted by being run by celibate men and with a long history of regarding sex as necessary, but a bit inferior to abstinence. {See JP2 obvious preference for nuns over married women].

My wife came home from mass today bringing her church bulletin announcing a workshop for those women to help eliminate their "shame" of abortion. And who created much of that shame?. Ah, what Christianity!!!

I must also refer you to the catholic clerics rather humourous comment that 'the church that claims to be the only church finds itself in the position of having to pay billions of dollars for child molestation' Andrew Greeley, I believe.

So my friends, goodbye. I am consistent. Have cancelled my reception into the RC church set for three weeks from this week. The Southern Baptist lost my respect by becoming merely an arm of the Republican party. RC has lost my respect as it becomes the one issue church. It's all summed up in the cartoon which shows Bush and a Soldier watching a casket of a soldeier being brought home and the soldier saying,"Don't worry , Mr. President, it's not a fetus."

Incidentally, no one in my family that I know has had an abortion, in case Karl Rove or your bishop told you to try that one. Jack Haynes


  1. That's why I don't discuss abortion or sex on my blog. Such discussions never end well, and the two sides can't find any common ground.

  2. garpu, a wise woman who knows music. what more could you want. that is your instrument, if you don't mind my asking. My coaching friends can't understand my music taste, and my music friends can't understand why my best friends are coach 'slobs'--well that's what they call them. Jack

    btw did you see my comment about music and tatoos on Liam.

  3. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened, Jack.

    I'd be happy to try to discuss the topic of abortion with you as respectfully and coherently as I can, if you are interested.

  4. Ah, Anna. I guess we tell christians by different standards maybe. My main creterion is action. You are a christian because you care for others, like me. On one of your first posts i saw months ago you were sorry you hadn't helped some hispanics who were moving into your apartment complex and were going to ask your priest how you might help hispanics. Remember? And Alice and the boy with the crushed foot. TV Smith: We become what we do, not what we think. Jack

  5. Hi Jack,

    All the best to you in your decision, I hope it is what is right for you, and not a result of interactions with the blogosphere.

    Personally I think that the life stance of the church is not something I really find objectionable.



  6. Haven't seen it the Hoopy Frood in town, so haven't been on as much as I'm usually. Instrument: don't play anything anymore. (No time, I'm a composer.)

  7. Jack,

    It may be that actions matter more to you than words. But you described how the words in a comments box offended you.

    I can't undo that harm, but I thought perhaps a more considerate discussion on the topic might help you heal, and might help give you perspective on the variety of ways that Catholics look on the subject, so that you can see that the Church is not a monolithic bastion of twisted logic and hatred of women, but rather a loose conglomeration of people with a wide variety of views and opinions. (Have you ever heard of ) Do you want me to show you other examples of the Church *not* being a "one-issue" Church?

    Also, if the owner of the blog says that the comments that offended you were not intended for you, you might give it some thought. I've come across a number of times on the internet where someone suddenly starts in on a vicious rant. People get defensive, because they think it's about them... but it really isn't. It's about something very very personal that has happened in that person's life. But the ranting person is not being careful enough to distinguish, either in their own minds or just in their timing. Anyhow, that's just a thought. I don't know for sure if it applies to your circumstances.

    I don't know why you would object to a workshop to help women deal with the shame of having had an abortion. Are you not aware of the pain, the shame, the guilt, the hurt that many (not all) women experience after having an abortion? If the Church caused that guilt, then that is all the more reason for the Church to try to help bring about healing, which is the purpose of such workshops. If the Church hasn't caused the guilt, if it's something that happens even to women who have had no experience with Christians, then the Church is being charitable by trying to help these women.

    Did you think that Catholics were holier than other people? Did you want to be Catholic because you like the Catholics you know? What do the sins of the Church - individually or collectively - have to do with whether or not God is calling you to be Catholic?

    God bless,

  8. Sorry about that. That didn't show up on the preview.

  9. anna, this is alice. just before jack was taken out of town for some tests he told me to erase the blog. frankly i don't know how since i do very little blogging, but i am going to briefly reply as best i can from his point of view.

    he feels the reply he got on another blog was highly insulting. now jack is not bashful, he would be more than happy to get into an 'insult' match, but i discourage that. we were both so pleased with liam apparently successful talk with his nephew's son and the two other boys that he was on a 'high'. but then this ugly little scene. such a scene had occured before on this other blog but"the he didn't mean it." ploy was used.
    as jack stated in this last post he had told the post runner some very personal things which i don't even know, by the way that doesn't upset me, i'm not so sure any of us would want to tell even those closest to us EVERYTHING. Then the post owner apparently reprimanded jack for telling him something personal. talk about a slap in the face.then by implication if not direct statement to excuse jack of engaging in subtefuge and other destrctive behavior was a little too much. jack said he was 'hurt'. that was his polite way of saying he was mad as hell.maybe I'm making a mistake here. maybe the other blogger thinks he can intimitate or blackmail jack.
    just a word on the second paragraph of the other blogger's response. we both thought it was done in anger and lacking logic. But forget that. it was the first paragraph that seemed to jack to break the code of gentlemanly behavior.
    there's really no point in debating abortion. one side starts with the assumption that the other side condones murder and the other side thinks their opponents are irrational fanatics.
    but let's stay off conclude jack thinks, and i agree,that the other blogger who he trusted broke good faith by exccoiating jack for entrusting him with personal information and engaging in subtefruge etc.
    now anna i'm sure you know the other blogger and will probably think what he wrote was not that bad. i guess it's how you look at it in terms of the background. alice

  10. Alice,

    Actually, I have no idea which blogger it was or what it was that was said. All I know is what Jack wrote about it: that it had something to do with abortion, that it upset him greatly, and that they tried to pass it off as not being about him, but he didn't believe them. So I was trying to respond in a generic way, without really knowing everything about what was going on. Maybe that was a stupid thing for me to do.

    I'm against abortion. I do think it's murder. However, I don't think that the people who do it usually think it is murder. So I don't think they're demons. I just think it would be good to convince them to think of the unborn as people too.


  11. Alice,

    Ok, I guess I found what it was that upset Jack so badly. I think when Jack comes back, he should re-read the comments.

    The poster wasn't accusing Jack of being sneaky. He was talking about how having secrets caused such problems for the church during the sex abuse scandals, so he was asking Jack not to post anonymously, in the spirit of not having secrets.

    I didn't see the poster saying anything to suggest that Jack shouldn't have posted personal information, but I'm not sure I understand all that was going on there anyhow.

    It sucks that Jack has been hurt by this. Even if the blogger didn't mean what Jack thought he meant, obviously he hurt him anyways, and that really stinks.

  12. anna, i got to talk to jack by phone for about 2 hours last night and he does want to respond, but of course he can't from the hospital. but he gave me a few pages of notes which i am going to try to organize at least to some degree and relay to you.
    hhe was very surprised that you did not recognize the 'knife' in the other bloggers comments.
    what is the difference between using anonymous and the other disguised names that are used in blogdom. would jack be accepted if he used brother mcgoof rather than anon?
    jack has been more open withh his name as i have than almost anyone in blogdom. he has even shown and identified the specific church in the town where we are.
    it should be noted that the OTHER blogger suggested he use anon. to start with.
    if the other blogger says everyone knows who anon is then what's the big deal?
    jack is amazed that you see no superior attitude in the other blogger comparing the church's woes with jack's use of anon.
    look at joe's blog and you will see he has always from the beginning with 2 or 3 exceptions given his name, usually his full name.
    does it not seem obvious to you that the other blogger was very angry with jack for the position he took on abortion?
    would you not be upset if you told someone something in private and the other person refered to that as hiding and other derogatory terms. the other blogger claims he was talking about the church, well why in the hell[jack's term]did he broach it in a direct response to a comment from jack.?
    would you not be angry if you entrusted one person in the world with private information and the person then excoriated the whole idea of privacy while running a blog on which no one else uses their real and full names?
    who is engaged in subtefuge? jack with his open self identification on 99 percent of his comments or those who use 'cover' names?
    jack will return, hopefully, in a day or two and will respond in more detail.
    jack is not big on miracles as you have guessed. that he found these blogs, he considered great fortune. that the other blogger allowed him to tell of past actions in private. that liam handled so well apparently the questions from the boys. that you remain concerned even though you and jack are probably far apart on theology--good fortune or miracles?
    personal note: I am sick that jack probably won't go through with his church choice. i think he is to.
    just a small correction, anna. the smith quote is "we are what we do not what we THINK." apparently you read it as "we are what we do, not what we SAY."
    but Anna your support has been great. jack appreciates it greatly.i guess this to most is 'sound and fury, meaning nothing'. but to jack and me it means something. Alice Haynes for JACK HAYNES.

  13. anna, yes jack says no anon. comments on his blog. we have tried but don't know how to get it off, less we create our 4th blog. alice

  14. Alice,

    You can read this to Jack, when he wants.

    Maybe part of the reason that I didn't see the “knife” in the other blogger's comments was that I know that he and Jack have gotten to value each other. I don't think that he would intentionally hurt Jack.

    I do think that he was upset about Jack's referring to the unborn as a “mass of undifferentiated cells”. But I don't think that had anything to do with the comments on anonymity.

    If you read the other guy's blog, you may notice that he posted about a book that he has been reading on the sex abuse scandals. I think when Jack first started commenting, the other guy probably suggested that he use anonymous posting so that he would feel more comfortable with posting at all. But now the other guy has just read about the awful, awful effects that anonymity and secrecy have been having, even in his own city. Because of this, he is moved to disable anonymous posting on his blog. Not because he thinks Jack specifically is necessarily doing something wrong, but because the whole idea of secrecy is repugnant to him after reading about the horrors that it perpetuated.

    Since Jack happened to be posting anonymously, and since everyone seemed to know that it was Jack anyways, the other blogger asked Jack if he would mind if he disabled anonymous posting, which would require Jack to log in.

    That is what I think happened.

    When you talk about good fortune and miracles: I see the hand of God in everything good that happens. If Jack has been built up by talking to me and other bloggers, then God is at work through all of us. And that is all the more reason for Jack not to give up on the blogger whose remarks he found so offensive. I encourage Jack to fight to keep the relationship going, not to let the devil's work tear them apart over this.

    Right now anonymous comments are not allowed on your blog. Did you want to change it to allow anonymous comments? I can tell you how to do that, if you want.

    I pray Jack's tests go well.

  15. anna, good people can disagree. it is hard for me to understand you can't see the "knife" for reasons which i won't repeat. jack had ask months ago how to get rid of anon. but never got an answer. please advise. please read jack and the other blogger again. jack is not saying the other blogger is bad, but cannot see why some can't spot the knife. of course, the other blogger holds the cards since jack confided in him and thus has the power to cause great harm. on a rather funny note, i left a comment on the other blogger's blog thinking i was commenting to liam. thanks again for your interest. alice

  16. Alice,

    You already got rid of anonymous comments on YOUR blog. Do you want to make it so that you stop posting anonymously on someone ELSE'S blog?

    If you go to someone else's blog, look at the box on the right where you type your message. Right underneath this comment box there should be the words "Choose your identity" and three dot-circles. If there aren't any dot-circles, there is probably a sentence that says, "This blog does not allow anonymous comments." If that is the case, then you already have to type in your username and password in order to post something.

    If you see the three dot-circles, they are labelled "Google/blogger", "Other", and "Anonymous". If you want to NOT be posting anonymously, you should click on "Google/blogger". And then spaces will pop up to type in your username and password.

    Blogs often remember which option you used last time; so that if you post anonymously last time, it will automatically make you post anonymously the next time, unless you change it by clicking on "Google/blogger" or "Other".

    You might have to make this switch for each different blog that you want to write on.

    Does that help?

    Or do you want me to tell you how to start allowing people to post anonymously on your blog?

    I guess I can see how the other guy's comments could have been a "knife". But I can also see how they could really not be about Jack so much as they are about the guy and the sex abuse scandal. And since I don't think the guy wanted to alienate Jack (and since he said he didn't want to push Jack away), it doesn't seem to me to be likely that he meant that "knife".

    I did notice your more recent comment. I was hoping that meant some reconciliation had happened. I got all my hopes up until I read that you mistook him for Liam. :)

    God bless,

  17. anna, we're not on the same track. Jack wants to ALLOW anon comments on his blog. He wants to get rid of "This blog does not allow anonymous comments." He wants to allow anon comments. as i have said before he has commented hundreds of times on blogs and with three or four exceptions has always signed in with his real name. in a day of two jack will show 'trick'the other blogger and mike are using. alice

  18. Ok.

    Go to your homepage, . There should be a blue bar across the top. The very rightmost word should be either "sign in" or "sign out".

    If it says, "Sign in", then click on "sign in". This will take you to a new page where you can type in your username and password. After you sign in, it will take you to the Dashboard page. It will say "Manage your blog", then list your blog. In that white box is a link that says "Settings". Click that. That will take you to the Settings page.

    To get to the Settings page if it said "sign out" instead of "sign in", then there should be another link immediately to the left of the "sign out" that says "Customize". Click on Customize. Now look on the left-hand side, right under the name of your blog. There should be a "Posting" "Settings" and "Template" tab. Click on the Settings tab.

    Once you are on the Settings page, you should see another line of links underneath where it says "Settings" on the left. Click on the link that says "Comments". This will bring up a list of options to change.

    The first option is to show or hide comments. Leave this alone. The second one is the one you want to change. Where it says, "Who can comment?", it will say "Only registered users". Change this to "anyone". Then scroll to the bottom of the page and click "save settings".

    And that should do it.


  19. Dang it. I don't know why I keep not closing my links properly. Sorry about that.


  20. Alice,

    I don't know if you're still reading the comments here. In case you are, I just want you to know my prayers are with you and Jack.