Sunday, August 17, 2008

Celibacy is Superior The church is not a democracy.

Blogging over the last couple of years has confirmed that catholics put forth the argument when pressed that "the Church is not a democracy." This is true and is not necessarily bad. Burke said something to the affect that 'men should be weighed, not just counted.' But, of course, there is a danger in 'weighing, not just counting' in that it CAN be a receipe for the dominance of one group over another.

I see this most clearly in the Church's attitude toward human sexuality all the way from masturbation to abortion. My approach is this: What would a society or group who were all pledged to celibacy have to say about human sexuality. From this I conclude that the Catholic church's teaching on sexuality fits perfectly what we would expect from a society of celibates.

One. It is clear that the church since the earliest times held sexual desires and actions to be inferior to celibacy. And that is putting it mildly. The Church for centuries regarded sex as degrading but necessary to keep the species going.

Two. The church has always held that celibacy is necessary for the complete devotion to God. And thus the celibate should be superior to the married in the service of God .This belief is clearly still held today, if we look past the effort to soften this attitude today.

Three. The church has always argued that the principal purpose of sex is procreation. They offer no proof of this from natural law or logic. It is simply true because the church says so, despite the fact that throughout human history procreation has been an occassional outcome of sexual intercourse, but has in no ways been the principal motive of sexual relations.

Four. Beginning in the 1930's the church has added the "unitive" principle as a reason for sexual relations. JP2 was the culmination of the two purposes of sex approach. It should be pointed out that the church, before 1930, must have been teaching falsely in that virtually no emphasis was placed on the "unitive" aspect and JP2 doctrine was considered a great 'breakthrough."

Five. The two 'purposes' approach is totally inadequate to most. The must have possibility of preocreation argument simply means no contraceptives or no orgasm outside of sexual intercourse. The unitive principal would take incredible subtlety to follow. Example: to assume that both parties are in total unity as to the pleasure of the sex act is almost impossible to determine. I'm watching a football game on TV and my wife desires sexual relationship. I put her off---has the unitive principle been violated. Even if sexual relationships are performed, but I am less interested, Have I failed the unitive effect? The unitive effect really comes down to don't rape your sponse. Good point, Yes.

Six. The church's teaching of no orgasm without male penetration is far-fetched. Great excitement in foreplay can lead to orgasm. I notice in checking the Catholic Answers site they suggest the unse of benzacaine to deaden sexual feeling. A bit artificial it seems to me.

Seven. The church desires the banning of contraceptives. Do they also desire to dictate the legitimacy of sexual foreplay and positions.

Eight. In its wisdom the Church developed NFP. That is a way to have sex not open to procreation, or, at least, so they claim. It is not like a condom, for example, because it is not artificial. That is a condom is something physical. The rigors of NFP achieve the same result with calendar counting, temperature, etc. Perfectly natural the church says.

Nine. Life begins at the moment of conception. Clever, but transparent. All aspects of the human body are human life. The real question is when does a cell become a person. The church knows their position that a single cell is a person is not accepted by most;so let's change person to life. No one will notice the difference. So a fertilized egg is a person just as much as a billion cell body. It has all the rights of any person. This is so unreasonable even to catholics---a pregnant person is not counted as two people, a single cell is not baptized, billions of these "persons" are eliminated by nature in spontaneous abortions, people do not weep over these simple cell forms which are expelled by nature, if they are full persons what is their physical in an afterlife, and on ad infinitum.

Ten. The church shows no particular interest in life after birth. It supports with great pride the African churches with their incredible records of female sexual mutilation, starvation sized families ( if only all Africans could have a NFP course), their opposition to sex education, the spread of aids, the suppression of women, their support of or neutrality toward dictatorial regimes. Well, the church says, we must not interfer with local customs.

Now all of the above are exactly what you would expect from those who are self claimed superior because of their celibacy but realize they cannot totally control human nature. The church can and should be great. But as long as ALL decisions are made by practical eunuchs to protect their superiority, there is little hope. After all the church is not a democracy. So what laypeople think and do is without significance.

I did not write this in anger and was holding it off because of my two boys. I was "inspired" by a flagrant example of naked clericalism that I experienced this week effecting my grandchildrem. Jack

12 comments:

  1. Too bad you didn't give us the details of what took place with the grandkids. I would have enjoyed that.

    You stated some of the problems I have with the catholic church and organized religion in general. I prefer to live my life by the golden rule, you know, be loving and kind, help others and don't be mean knowingly and ignore all of the fine print bullshit.

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  2. Jack,

    Life begins at the moment of conception. Clever, but transparent. All aspects of the human body are human life. The real question is when does a cell become a person.

    You miss the point. All aspects of the human body are human life, but a fertilized egg is not an aspect of the mother's body; it is a new human body. It is a human being, a new member of homo sapiens. You have, without any particular justification besides your imagination and "the majority", declared that this living human being is not a person.

    a pregnant person is not counted as two people,

    Maybe not in a census, because it would not be convenient, but I have certainly heard people refer to a pregnant woman as two people.

    a single cell is not baptized,

    If a single cell was in danger of death, and if we knew how to get the water in there to baptize it, I think many Christians would choose to baptize it. I certainly would.

    billions of these "persons" are eliminated by nature in spontaneous abortions,

    I still don't get this. Billions of people are eliminated by nature in other ways; what does the number have to do with it?

    people do not weep over these simple cell forms which are expelled by nature

    Seriously? The women I know who have had miscarriages, even if it happened just as they found out they were pregnant in the first place, wept for the loss of their babies.

    if they are full persons what is their physical in an afterlife

    What is YOUR physical in an afterlife? If a baby is stillborn, what is his body like in the afterlife? Are you saying that because people don't speculate on unknowable questions like this, we must not think of the unborn as persons?

    Like suddenly sixty, I wonder what details took place with the grandkids. Clericalism can be so harmful.

    God bless,
    Anna

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  3. suddenly sixty, I am glad to tell you the details. My grandkids go to a catholic school and a catholic early chilhood school, both run by our parish church. The early childhood building is like the taj mahal. Fine. Unfortunately the church did not build it according to the state requirements. The state regulations clearly said it had to have a cafeteria. The clergy and the architec failed to read the regulation through sheer carelessness. So the priest sent all parents a letter a couple of days before school started saying that food would have to be catered in every day, at 3.50 a day(one meal)and that tuition would have to be raised an additional 100 dollars a month because the building cost more than the eight million they said it would cost. The cost is now a million or so more, so the parents must pay off the money that was borrowed. The pre-school director quit. My daughter and her husband have good jobs but still this was a big blow.

    I might add that the living quarters for the priests at the church are most elegant and they pride themselves on their fine taste in wine!!

    I do not expect priests to live in poverty, but was upset when a few wheels in the church solicited contributions to extablish a personal retirement fun for the high priest. Better get off here, I'm getting steamed. Jack

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  4. Anna, a cell is not a body in any sense of the word. You say a single cell is a human being. To me that is preposterous. And is not accepted by anyone I know, catholic of not.

    Tell me where in our constitution and in civil or criminal law a single cell has all the rights of human persons. Can a mass of cells or a single cell with no sentient qualities be a person. Like what other person?

    The church does not baptize single cells.

    The number has a hell of a lot to do with "it." Are you saying the loss of a single cell is the same as the loss of a 5 year old. Sorry, Anna, no banana. But the celibates want you to think that.

    Do those women who KNOW they will lose many single cells through spontaneous abortion spend their wholce fertile years crying. Come on, now.

    Anna, you once endeavored to explain our bodies in the after life.Do you now say you don't know. Indeed you once argued they had sexual organs but did not have sex.

    Anna, you know I like and appreciate you. If you could just see through a cell is a human person,or in the alternative that almost no one believes that. Why can't the church oppose abortion, I do, without being silly.

    Hey, the boys "love" you.I don't know what you tell them, but it must be good. Don't tell Ken.You are so great with the young men. Stop worrying about a few cells.

    And BTW what about those absolutely wonderful African catholic leaders.:) Jack

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  5. Jack,

    Anna, a cell is not a body in any sense of the word. You say a single cell is a human being. To me that is preposterous. And is not accepted by anyone I know, catholic of not.

    And yet, ask any biologist and they should tell you that a fertilized egg is a member of homo sapiens. How is a single cell not a body? Some amoeba and bacteria have only a single cell for their body for their whole lives.

    I keep feeling like maybe I should recommend you take a basic biology class, or read a biology book or something.

    Mitosis is a sort of asexual reproduction, when a cell simply divides into two identical versions of itself. Meiosis is part of the process of sexual reproduction. It is when a diploid cell (that is, a cell having a full set of human chromosomes) divides twice to result in four haploid cells (cells having half a set of human chromosomes). These haploid cells are called gametes. In a female, the gamete is called an egg; in a male, the gamete is called a sperm. When a gamete from the female and a gamete from the male combine, they each contribute their half-chromosome-set to make a new diploid cell. At this point, sexual reproduction is complete. The new diploid cell is the offspring of the male and female whose gametes produced it. The new cell then uses mitosis to divide and produce more of itself.

    Growth within any given organism always happens by mitosis, not by meiosis. (That's why all the cells in our body are genetically identical). To quote wikipedia, "Together, meiosis and fertilization constitute sexuality in the eukaryotes, and generate genetically distinct individuals in populations."

    Genetically distinct individuals in populations... that means that the zygote, the fertilized egg, is a genetically distinct individual in the population of humanity. It is a member of homo sapiens; it is a human being.

    Science can't tell us about personhood - a metaphysical/spiritual designation - but it can and does tell us that even a single cell is an individual member of our species, which is to say a human being. And it is these human beings that you have decided are not people.

    Can a mass of cells or a single cell with no sentient qualities be a person. Like what other person?

    Well, it's somewhat similar to a person in a coma, who may have no sentient qualities. Do you really think you have to be sentient to be a person? Have you ever looked at a newborn baby? Usually they don't even know how to focus their eyes, but you think they are aware of themselves or able to think? They are less sentient than a grown ape. The ability to think or be aware of its surroundings is not what makes an individual a person.

    The church does not baptize single cells.

    You're using as evidence the fact that the Church doesn't do something which is physically impossible to do? The Church doesn't baptize any baby until it is born, and sometimes not for awhile after that, because we can't pour water on a baby while it is still in the womb.

    The number has a hell of a lot to do with "it." Are you saying the loss of a single cell is the same as the loss of a 5 year old. Sorry, Anna, no banana. But the celibates want you to think that.

    I think that, in GOD'S eyes, the loss of a single cell is the same as the loss of a 5 year old. To the people who know the child, it may not have the same emotional impact, because they have had more time to get to know the 5 year old. Is the death of a child who is still in the womb, but old enough to have brain waves, the same as the death of a 5 year old? To God, yes, but that doesn't mean that the mother will necessarily grieve the same amount of time for both.

    Do those women who KNOW they will lose many single cells through spontaneous abortion spend their wholce fertile years crying. Come on, now.

    How many tears have you spent on the loss of life in Hurricane Katrina? Or the endless flow of earthquakes and train wrecks and every other disaster that happens? Do you cry for all of them?

    If I have many more children in heaven than on earth because they have failed to implant, well then, I look forward to meeting them in heaven. But if I don't grieve for them, it is not because I don't believe they are people, it is because I don't *know* them.

    Anna, you once endeavored to explain our bodies in the after life.Do you now say you don't know. Indeed you once argued they had sexual organs but did not have sex.

    I have some opinions about our bodies in the afterlife, including the fact that they have sexual organs but no sex. But one thing I haven't figured out is what age our bodies will be, or whether it will even need to stay the same age.

    Think of it this way. You believe an unborn baby with brain waves is a person. Such a baby, if it were to die at that age, would not have fully-developed lungs, would probably not have the ability to focus its eyes yet, and would be less than two feet tall. What kind of body will THAT baby have in the afterlife? If God can solve that problem, then I don't think solving the problem of an even more incomplete body will be a problem for Him.

    Anna, you know I like and appreciate you. If you could just see through a cell is a human person,or in the alternative that almost no one believes that. Why can't the church oppose abortion, I do, without being silly.

    Yeah, I like you too, Jack. But I think your insistence that a human being can't possibly be a person just because it's one cell is, frankly, horrible.

    Hey, the boys "love" you.I don't know what you tell them, but it must be good. Don't tell Ken.You are so great with the young men. Stop worrying about a few cells.

    Mostly I tell them not to listen to the crap their father gave them, that God is showing his love for them by sending you and Alice into their lives, and it's ok for them to be happy and enjoy it.

    Ironically, the human dignity and worth that I see in them is the same human dignity and worth that I see (in a more abstract way) in those cells; I don't plan to give up on either. :)

    And BTW what about those absolutely wonderful African catholic leaders.:) Jack

    What about the African catholic leaders? It's not really like I think all of them are wonderful. Mostly I just don't know that much about them, although I have heard a few positive things about them here and there. And actually, I have a good bit of respect for our American bishops, at least when they act all together. (Individually, I have issues with some of what they have said and done).

    God bless,
    Anna

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  6. Jack,

    Oh, and I meant to say, that really sucks with your parish's mismanagement of the property.

    Also, what the heck would celibate men gain from having me believe that a few cells are a person? How in the world would that particular belief support their power or anything like that?

    God bless,
    Anna

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  7. Anna, I can find no biologist who considers one cell a person; except for a few catholic or fundamentalist biologists who, because of their required subservience to catholic or fundamentalist teachings, so argue.

    A single cell is not regarded as a person by any laws of our country. A single cell has no legal rights in our constitution.

    Almost all Americans consider the idea of a single cell being a person preposterous.

    Your effort to NOT grieve the billions of "persons" killed by spontaneous abortion seems insensitive.

    Anna, your answer on single cells after death still seems to contradict your earlier position, where you seemed certain as to some aspects of human bodies after death.

    Catholic scientist opinions on this issue have no weight, since they are required to believe what the Church says, not what an independent thinker believes.

    What makes you think, with the progress of modernd medical technology, that a fetus could not be baptized?

    Of course the practical eunuchs who totally control the Church teach that celibacy is superior to non-celibacy. It is to their power advantage to contend that sex must always be directed primarily to procreation and to thus from their vast experience lay down what is acceptable sexual behavior for all others A married priesthood would shatter their claims to superiority and provide competition for the Church's largese.

    Most sources I have found say this issue of personhood is a philosophical/religious question. The Catholic church is wrong in its efforts to control the sex lives of people from those who obviously demean sex by eschewing it as necessary for greater godliness. Catholics should follow what they believe, but not force others by law or threats to accept their personal beliefs.

    Lastly, I do not consider these boys on the same level as a single cell, which after several weeks gestation are not distinquisable from a dog. The Church should emphasize the possible glories of parenthood, and not argue that superior persons, such as priests, should never have children

    Anna I am afraid we cannot agree on this. You are a true Christian, not because of your required catholic beliefs on this subject,but how you have played such an important role in two boys lives. They are so much the better to have you as a friend. Jack

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  8. Jack,

    If a scientist says "human life begins at conception", what do you think he means by that?

    Anna

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  9. Anna, he means just what he says. But do we not all recognize that there is a difference between human life and a person. Scraping from your arm, for example, meet all the criterion of human life, but they are not persons. If a heart is taken from a person and transfered to another, that heart is human life, but not a person. Cancer is human life, but not a person. An unfertilized egg is human life but not a person.

    The Church not wanting to enter a discussion of personhood, simply substitutes life for person. If they admitted there is a difference that would lead to discussion which would be complicated, to be sure. It might also introduce the idea of sexual relations without consequences. Thus they say life/person begins at conception, a doctrine held by almost no one and absent from law.

    In my opinion the Church would do much better emphasizing the great relationship of parent to child, rather than taking positons not accepted in law or really subject to critical examination. Or, in the alternative, revert to the concept of potentiality and actuality which it held for centuries. Jack

    I do not know what you said to Frank and Derr but they have been on a high the last couple of days. I think you are the reason. Jack

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  10. But do we not all recognize that there is a difference between human life and a person. Scraping from your arm, for example, meet all the criterion of human life, but they are not persons. If a heart is taken from a person and transfered to another, that heart is human life, but not a person.

    Sure, there's a difference between something that is only part of a human, but still living, and something which is a whole human.

    But what does it mean to say that human life BEGINS at conception? What is it that is beginning? A sperm is alive; and that sperm is human life. An egg is alive, and that egg is human life. A fertilized egg is alive and it is human life. So what is it that began at conception? Does a heart begin at conception? Does a scraping from an arm begin at conception? If a scientist says "human life begins at conception", is he making a meaningless statement? If it means something, then what DOES it mean?

    God bless,
    Anna

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  11. Anna, I answered above. What begins at conception is a cell that MAY become a person, precisely as an acorn may become an oak tree but is not. Again, potentiality and actuality. Jack

    BTW I answered first another place. Jack

    Frank and Derr are having a friendly disagreement. I can hear them. Sometimes I think you get more personal thought from them than I do. But that is GREAT. Afterall you are a century or two younger than I am.

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  12. Anna, I answered above. What begins at conception is a cell that MAY become a person, precisely as an acorn may become an oak tree but is not. Again, potentiality and actuality. Jack

    BTW I answered first another place. Jack

    Frank and Derr are having a friendly disagreement. I can hear them. Sometimes I think you get more personal thought from them than I do. But that is GREAT. Afterall you are a century or two younger than I am.

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